“The Conscience of the Nation and the Church”

Louisvillian Guthrie Graves-Fitzsimmons literally wrote the book about the millions of Christians who have progressive views and lean towards the Democrats but are often ignored by political writers like me who, when we bother to talk about the religious views of voters at all, focus almost exclusively on white evangelicals who lean heavily Republican. Guthrie, who works on the intersection of politics and faith as a fellow at the D.C.-based Center for American Progress, is looking pretty prescient these days. The most important Democrats in Washington, Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi, talk all the time about how their faith influences their politics, as do two of the party’s rising stars, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Pete Buttigieg. So does Charles Booker, a rising star in Kentucky Democratic politics. 

And on Tuesday night, Democrats essentially clinched control of the Senate and therefore a governing trifecta (House, Senate, presidency) in Washington by winning two U.S. Senate seats in Georgia. A huge part of that victory was the Democrats recruiting Atlanta pastor Raphael Warnock to run for one of the seats. Warnock wasn’t just a black candidate hoping to appeal to Georgia’s large black population --- his faith, race and work are all interconnected. 

Guthrie and I talked after Warnock’s victory. Here is a lightly-edited transcript of our conversation: 

You have written about the so-called Religious Left more than anyone I know. What was your reaction to seeing the pastor of the church that Martin Luther King. Jr and his father once ran be elected to the U.S. Senate? 

Progressive people of faith have been a part of every movement for social justice in American history. The most famous example of that was the Civil Rights Movement and the leadership of MLK. So it's fitting that the most important development in the reemergence of the Religious Left in today's political climate has a direct line to MLK's history. Progressive people of faith never went away. But we are getting louder and Rev. Warnock's victory has galvanized even more support.

It's critical to recognize the leadership of the Black church for our country and as Christians, for the Church. The Black church is the conscience of the nation and the church.

I was uncomfortable following the campaign between Loeffler and Warnock. I don’t mind when politicians argue forcefully about say, tax policy. But it felt like Loeffler was really focused on attacking Warnock’s comments on racial issues during his sermons, in a way that felt like she was policing the way black people speak in black spaces about America’s racial dynamics. I felt like she was going over the top. At the same time, I kind of felt like maybe the Democrats shouldn’t have run a black pastor (or person) who has spoken honestly and directly about racial issues (as opposed to an Obama/Booker/Harris-type who does happy talk on racial issues.)  I was not sure non-black voters were ready for that. (Seems like I was wrong.) 

I thought it was out of bounds to take his sermons out of context and twist them like political speech.  Preaching is not politics.

But the words someone has used in the past are a guide to their views, right? His views are in bounds. 

Preaching is being guided by the Holy Spirit to speak to your congregation -- a specific congregation. They reflect Biblical interpretation and theological views, not policy statements. I think people's religious freedom should be respected. 

For instance, I don't care what Amy Coney Barrett's theological views on the death penalty are, to be honest.

I do think Warnock's preaching and leadership in the church was a strength, which is why the GOP went after it -- attack your opponents’ strengths not their weaknesses.

Ebenezer is one of the most famous pulpits in the US and even the world. And Democrats often get knocked for being out of touch with religion. So while they twisted his faith, I think overall it was a huge asset and Democrats should recruit more clergy and faith-based activists to run. There was no question where his values come from (even if you disagree with some of them). They come from his faith, the Black Church prophetic tradition of Dr. King, and the Bible

One more question on this. There was a moment in 2019 where Mayor Pete was implying that he was the real Christian, not his fellow Indianan Mike Pence. I felt like this Georgia race had some of those same dynamics. I don’t think religion can be totally separated from politics. But I am somewhat uncomfortable with the idea that political campaigns become debates over who is the true or best Christian. We don’t need Democratic Christianity and Republican Christianity. But maybe we have that already? 

Boundary lines of acceptable difference are always being debated. For instance, we're chatting now while people are storming the U.S. Capitol in an attempted coup. I imagine many of them would claim to be Christians. I would argue their beliefs, actions, and values do not reflect those of Jesus.

I think there are different ways to go about critiquing conservative Christians though. 

You can't deny the Christian defense of slavery existed. But you can also uplift the fact that abolitionists also looked to their faith for inspiration. 

Whether we say they're not Christians, fake Christians, or just very conservative Christians -- it's all making the same essential point I think. That is, progressive Christians think we're doing our best (however imperfectly) to follow Jesus and don't think the conservative version of the faith reflects the same worldview. 

I wouldn't make it partisan though. All the progressive Christians I know have problems with the Democratic Party -- around endless war, climate change, too pro-corporate, etc. 

Do you know Warnock personally? What did you know of him before the campaign?

 I have never met him. I knew about him because Ebenezer is one of the most important churches out there. He's also been a part of Auburn Senior Fellows -- the who's who of progressive Christian leaders.

That's about all I knew. Similar to Otis Moss III I'd say, a leader of the Black Church prophetic tradition today and one of the nation's top social justice leaders.

In reading your work, you have two critiques of how Christianity is discussed in terms of politics. First, you have argued that the media ignores Christians with progressive views. Secondly, you have argued the Democratic Party ignores progressive Christians to some extent too. Do you see change in either of those critiques, particularly with the rise of Buttigieg and now Warnock over the last two years? 

Rev. Barber and Sister Simone Campbell have broken through. And I think there were dynamics about HRC and Obama that made the religion question difficult. Obama decided to distance himself from his own pastor and HRC was burned by her early attempts to talk about it.

So Biden, Pelosi, AOC, Warnock, Warren, Sanders are all better in this regard.

And the media is paying more attention, though still not enough. There is still some sense that religious progressives are the outliers.

Democrats will all do better if the myth that religion is on the side of the GOP is busted. All political advocacy is rooted in values, and it's a mystery to me why Democrats who are authentically people of faith wouldn't share more about the values that underpin their work in public life.

What do you make of Warnock planning to remain as pastor of the church?

I love that Warnock will continue to preach. I'm married to a bi-vocational minister myself (he's a Presbyterian minister and therapist) and I know that many ministers manage other commitments. Public service and ministry fit well together! 

Thanks Guthrie for talking with me. If you are interested in this subject of religion and Democratic politics, I would recommend not only Guthrie’s book Just Faith: Reclaiming Progressive Christianity, but two others that came out this year and are also excellent: Robert Jones’ White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity and Jack Jenkins’ American Prophets: The Religious Roots of Progressive Politics and the Ongoing Fight for the Soul of the Country. And if you aren’t going to read the books, here are some useful articles that get at some of the core ideas in these books, which I do think you should still read in full! 

Final note. Warnock won just 13 percent of the white evangelical/born-again vote in Georgia, according to exit polls. But as Guthrie says constantly, white evangelical is not a synonym for people of faith or even Christian, even though the media sometimes makes it seem that way. Proving Guthrie’s point about the media, I can’t even find a breakdown of the overall Christian vote from the Georgia races this week. I did find an Associated Press survey of the November elections, which suggest that about 40 percent of Georgians who attend church weekly and also about 40 percent of Georgians who identify as Protestants backed Joe Biden. In short, 40 is much bigger than 13 and reflects that the Christian vote is more divided than political coverage often implies. 

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